Joe Cluff

Tom O’Reilly: Joe, you come across as a highly capable person. From what you've shared, I sense that you would be successful in any organizational role. What is it about internal audit specifically that made you want to dedicate your career to it?

Joe Cluff: Thank you, that's very kind of you to say. I learned to work hard early on in life, so I’m confident I would have worked my way into success in any path I chose. If I were to write a book about my career though, I'd title it "The Accidental Auditor" because I stumbled into this field by chance. 

While studying information systems and production and operations management, I expected to work in supply chain or business systems. But when recruiters visited our college campus offering a job focused on systems and processes, I thought, "I could do that." Though I didn't know much about internal audit, I felt confident in my abilities. I interviewed, outperformed all the accounting candidates, and landed the position. Then I discovered my natural aptitude for it—I could easily understand and connect the dots between processes, risks, and how systems work together. Once I realized my talent for it, I truly fell in love with the field. Now, after more than 20 years in this career, my passion hasn't wavered. I still find it exciting and fun every day I come to work. It's genuinely what I love to do.

Tom O’Reilly: Thanks for explaining what drew you to internal auditing. I'd like to explore this further: Beyond your natural talent for it, what aspects of internal auditing specifically appeal to you?

Joe Cluff: The two years I spent outside of internal audit were challenging because I was tied to a fixed accounting calendar—that didn't match my work style. I love project-based work and interacting with people, and I thrive on having variety in my day. As auditors, we typically start with SOX compliance and become really good at it. Then we make our mark by conducting operational risk-based audits, helping companies grow, and protecting them. That part of the work is incredibly fun for me. I love making a difference and seeing tangible results where the company becomes better, faster, and stronger because of something my team discovered that others either couldn't figure out or had overlooked.

Tom O’Reilly: You mentioned mastering SOX compliance before expanding into operational audits. Could you elaborate on how you see SOX expertise as a foundation for growing internal audit's scope?

Joe Cluff: Let me share my experience here at Academy. When I started, we spent 75–80% of our time on SOX, which made sense since we were private equity-owned and preparing to go public. We needed to show future investors that we had robust internal controls they could trust for accurate financial reporting.

As we demonstrated our value through well-chosen, results-driven projects, the company increased its investment in us. We started with a team of seven people, and next year we're proposing to grow to 13—nearly doubling in five years. This growth happened because we not only excel at SOX compliance and protect the company but also add value in other areas. The company continues to invest in us because we deliver returns through impactful projects.

Tom O’Reilly: Regarding your business rotation experience: How did it enhance your effectiveness as an internal audit leader, and do you recommend similar rotations for aspiring audit leaders?

Joe Cluff: My rotation happened at Motorola, which used the GE Internal Audit model at the time. You were expected to start in internal audit for a few years—it's an amazing platform to view the entire company, get to know people, and connect with leaders. Then they expected you to rotate into a business leadership role, since internal audit served as training grounds. That's exactly what happened for me. After two years in internal audit at Motorola doing amazing projects, I audited a factory in Mexico where I got to know the controller. He hired me to help strengthen his team and provide leadership.

The experience was incredible. I grew more in those two years outside of internal audit than I had in the previous six to eight years within it. It was a baptism by fire—really challenging but enlightening. It helped me understand the world outside of internal audit and how the business views us. Being on the other side—being audited rather than doing the auditing—gave me a fresh perspective. That empathy is invaluable now in building relationships and leading this function.

If others ask about doing a rotation, I advise them to follow their hearts. If something attracts you and you feel you can make a difference, absolutely go for it. But don't do it just to check a box—those kinds of career moves aren't helpful because you lose your passion. Throughout my career, I've only taken positions where I believed I could make meaningful, tangible differences I'd be proud of. That's the key difference.

So if your heart and skill set are leading you toward a rotation, take that opportunity. You'll learn things you'd never experience staying solely in internal audit. In my case, when they closed the factory and I didn't want to relocate, I returned to internal audit. It was my core skill set, so I picked up where I left off and have continued ever since. I'm still here because I feel I'm adding the most value. Even now, if an opportunity outside internal audit at Academy arose where I felt I could make a real difference, I wouldn't hesitate. I'd leave my 20-plus year career if it was the right move for both me and the company.

Tom O’Reilly: As a CAE, how do you structure your daily work to maximize impact? With such diverse responsibilities, how do you prioritize your time effectively?

Joe Cluff: From a strategic perspective, our department aims to split time equally between SOX compliance and operational audits. That's the commitment we made to the board years ago, and we achieved it. Though staffing shortages this year pushed us to spend more time on SOX, we can maintain that 50-50 split when fully staffed. Ideally, if the department is split 50-50, I'd split my time 75-25, dedicating the 75% to strategic initiatives, relationship building, operational audits, ethics investigations, and risk-based projects.

I serve on various company committees, which helps me stay connected to the business. This involvement gives me insight into our risks, concerns, growth areas, and investments—all of which improves our operational and risk-based audits. I want SOX to run on autopilot. We have excellent leadership and auditors managing it, and I only need to get involved when there are deficiencies that require my attention for the audit committee or executive leadership discussions. This approach lets me focus more on strategic, operational projects that impact the business.

My day-to-day work varies significantly. Currently, with an upcoming audit committee meeting, I'm spending about 75% of my time preparing content. I'm focused on crafting clear, impactful, and concise messages. During regular periods, I spend more time supporting my team, participating in committee work, and looking for ways to make a difference in the business.

Tom O’Reilly: What committees do you sit on?

Joe Cluff: I chair the Internal Controls Committee and serve as a member of the Enterprise Risk Committee, Customer Data Privacy Committee, Ethics Committee, Disclosure Committee, and Cybersecurity Committee. There might be another one I'm forgetting. It's interesting to see how this involvement evolved. Initially in internal audit, people tend to keep their distance because of the nature of our role. However, as you start adding value, people begin to appreciate your perspective. I've been invited to these committees because of my unique viewpoint on the business. This involvement helps me keep my finger on the pulse of the organization while ensuring accountability and making decisions that protect and benefit the company.

Tom O’Reilly: How do you define the value that internal audit and your team provide? Is there something tangible that stakeholders receive when internal audit delivers value?

Joe Cluff: I think about value in two ways.

They serve as my measuring stick for evaluating projects: Will this audit move the needle and help the company? Is it protecting us or removing obstacles that will help us be better?

Tom O’Reilly: I noticed on your LinkedIn profile that you were promoted from Senior Director to Vice President of Internal Audit. However, in both roles, you were/are the CAE. Could you tell me about that promotion? What convinced the C-Suite team at Academy to elevate your position from Director to Vice President?

Joe Cluff: Great question. I think there are two key parts to this. The function itself needs to merit that level of leadership. When I joined as a senior director, we weren't public at the time. While we had SOX compliance because we were private equity-owned and preparing to go public, internal audit was a smaller operation within the company. At that stage, the senior director level was appropriate for the role.

When we took the company public, it elevated the criticality of the role. Now we had real skin in the game. As a publicly traded company, our stock really matters to our investment community. They need to know we have a system of internal controls certified by a department that owns that responsibility. Plus, we're doing operational audits that help the company improve. The elevation from a private to public company merited the shift in leadership—we became critical enough to warrant a vice president leading the organization.

But of course,

I believe they felt that "Yes, Joe can be the VP of internal audit." The function merited it, and I had demonstrated VP-level work.

I wasn't pushing for it or threatening to leave—I was happy as a senior director. These two factors just aligned naturally: the function became critical enough to merit a VP leader, and I had earned the promotion through our work. I don't say this to brag, but our team did really impressive work, which made it easy for my boss to advocate for me with the executive team. When asked, "Do you see Joe as a VP?" the answer came back as “yes”.

For me personally, coming from incredibly humble circumstances, the promotion was a real "shake your head" moment. Going from a kid growing up in Mexico in pretty humble circumstances to being a vice president in corporate America with significant responsibility on my shoulders—it was a truly sobering moment in my career.

Tom O’Reilly: While you make this role look effortless, what are the biggest challenges that aspiring internal audit leaders should be aware of? What aspects of the role might they underestimate?

Joe Cluff: I doubt I make it look effortless - I feel like I struggle a lot in my role, but I am really passionate about this because internal audit has inherent authority—we report to the board of directors. We have a hammer that we could use to try and beat the company into compliance, but I’ve never wanted to use the hammer.. I want to be a partner. That's why the hardest part of my job is building and maintaining trust throughout the organization. I'm very intentional and strategic about it.

While we know we could throw our weight around if absolutely necessary, that's never our goal. Instead, we want to influence people, help them see the importance of controls and doing things the right way, and show how changes can improve the company. Rather than making someone look bad through audit findings, we focus on the future and how we can make positive changes.

Building trust looks different across the organization. With the board, audit committee, and executive leadership team, I earn trust through delivering good results and presenting them clearly and intentionally. With my own team, I build trust by treating them well, giving them meaningful work, and allowing them freedom to grow. With the rest of the company, I develop trust through impactful audits.

One of our core principles—and we're almost obsessive about this—is "no surprises." When we discover something during an audit, we discuss it immediately. We don't wait for the draft report. We put observations in context right away, asking "Is this a big deal?" This early and frequent communication is crucial because it gives everyone time to process the finding, understand its importance, and often fix it before the report is even issued.

This approach builds trust because people never feel ambushed. Instead of facing a firing squad, they're working with us to solve problems. Since we'll be reporting to the board anyway, we give them the reason and resources to make improvements that benefit the company.

The second key principle is the "so what" factor. If we can't explain why something matters, it doesn't belong in an audit report. Even if something violates policy, if it doesn't really matter, maybe the policy needs review. I only want our reports to contain meaningful findings that help improve the company.

Trust is incredibly hard to earn and frighteningly easy to lose. Burn someone once, and that trust vanishes—it's extremely difficult to rebuild. That's why we're so intentional about this approach. While you could do this job with the hammer that comes with the responsibility, it's far more effective—and more enjoyable—to do it through trust, confidence, and relationship-building. This approach has worked well for me over the years, and I feel really good about it.

Tom O’Reilly: Your comment reminds me of Theodore Roosevelt's quote: "Speak softly and carry a big stick, you will go far."

Joe Cluff: And the stick is somewhat invisible - it's the fact that we report our findings to the audit committee. But I don't want to use it that way. What I want is for you to discuss those observations and your remediation plans before I need to report to the audit committee. Then we're truly collaborating and working together to strengthen the company. So yes, we carry a big stick - it's there in the form of the audit committee and Board of Directors knowing what's happening in the company. It's about you wanting to excel in your role and career, and how you're leading your organization.

Tom O’Reilly: What's top of mind for you as an internal audit leader heading into 2025? What key priorities are you focused on as VP of Internal Audit?

Joe Cluff: There are two main things on my mind for next year. First is our growth. Most people reading this probably don't know Academy Sports and Outdoors—only 17% of the U.S. population lives within 10 miles of one of our 300 stores. We're primarily in the Southeast, but we're expanding north and west, planning to open more than 150 stores in the next four to five years. Our internal audit function needs to grow and support this expansion.

As mentioned before, we'll be examining what might hinder that growth. Where can we be more efficient? How can we grow faster, better, stronger? And critically, what could derail us? What are our major risks? For example - we sell firearms—that's inherently risky. We need to be the most responsible firearms retailer in the country.

We'll focus on these areas to support company growth, highlighting obstacles that leadership needs to address while protecting the company from significant risks. Supporting this growth is my top priority for next year.

The second focus is efficiency. With rapid advances in technology—whether AI or robotic process automation—how can we improve our processes? If we can streamline our transactional work, we'll have more time for risk-based and operational auditing. So I'm pursuing both efficiency gains and growth support for the coming year.

Tom O’Reilly: Having interviewed and hired many internal auditors at various levels—staff, seniors, managers—what are the key factors that make you say "I want this person on my team?", and extend an offer?

Joe Cluff: Internal audit isn't rocket science—we can teach auditing and control testing. What I really look for is maturity. By maturity, I mean: Can you handle challenging situations? Can you represent my team well? Do you have strong communication skills? Have you been through difficult projects that tested your ability to work with people and technology? That maturity factor is crucial.

The other essential qualities are curiosity and attention to detail. If you're a good communicator who has tackled tough challenges, show maturity in representing our team, and demonstrate genuine curiosity to learn and grow—that's the ideal combination. Bring those qualities, and I can help you become an exceptional auditor and build your career in internal audit. The maturity to represent our organization while maintaining the trust we've built over five years is paramount.

A naturally curious person who wants to understand how things work makes an excellent auditor. You'll dig deeper, uncover issues, and ask challenging questions—all because you're genuinely curious and detail-oriented.

Tom O’Reilly: What skills and competencies will they need to be successful in the near future?

Joe Cluff: I see two main categories here. First, there's the constantly evolving part of internal audit—that's technology. You want technology to be your friend and use it to become a better auditor. This could mean learning data analytics, understanding robotic process automation, or exploring how AI can enhance your work.

Then there are the timeless aspects of internal audit that haven't changed in my 20-plus year career: communication skills, maturity, curiosity, critical thinking, and thoroughness—turning over every stone. These fundamentals remain essential, just as they've been for decades.

Technology is changing how we approach these core responsibilities. When we're turning over those stones, maybe AI helps us do it, or we use data analytics to dig deeper. The technology improves our efficiency and effectiveness. While our methods evolve, our core mission stays largely the same.

So that's how I'd frame it: embrace technology as your ally while mastering the fundamental competencies that make a great auditor.

Tom O’Reilly: Any parting advice for the aspiring Internal Auditor?

Joe Cluff: I'd offer two key pieces of advice. First, whatever you do, make a difference. Do something that helps. Looking back over my career, making a meaningful impact has been the most rewarding part. Of course, you won't bat 1.000 every time. There were periods when I was more of a taker than a giver—when personal circumstances meant I wasn't giving 100% at work. I did enough to get by, but I wasn't exceptional. Sometimes I benefited more from the company than they did from me. But throughout my 20-plus year career, making a difference has been crucial. Do things that create positive change and bring you professional fulfillment. This means being daring and stepping up—taking on challenges and finding solutions.

Second, I wish I'd figured out work-life priorities earlier in my career. Rather than pursuing the elusive idea of "work-life balance," I love what my former Vivint colleague Nate Randall, now CEO of Gabb, recently shared on Instagram about "non-negotiables." Perfect work-life balance might be a myth, but you can absolutely maintain your non-negotiables. Sit down with your family and ask: Where do you need me? Which events are critical for me to attend? What moments are essential for me to be present? Make these your non-negotiables—things you'll miss work for, no question. Now my kids feel I'm truly present because we've established these non-negotiables. If I'd had this approach earlier in my career, I would have done a much better job managing both family and work. It's valuable advice I share with everyone navigating a demanding career.

Tom O’Reilly: What's one fun fact about you that very few people on your team or colleagues from the past 15-20 years know, but would find interesting if they did?

Joe Cluff: My colleagues know that I grew up in Mexico. I speak Spanish and Portuguese fluently and have worked extensively throughout Latin America. I've also conducted audits in 15 different countries and lived in three or four of them for extended periods. From an international perspective, I've been around the block a time or two—for better and worse.

One of my favorite trips happened recently - a trip to Belize. The diving there was exceptional. The country offers incredible variety—there's a mountainous region with Mayan ruins where you can do amazing outdoor activities like hiking, river rafting, and canoeing up different rivers. It's epic. Then you can head out to the islands, which are absolutely beautiful. You spend your days driving golf carts around these little islands, exploring, fishing, scuba diving, and snorkeling. My daughter and I dove the Blue Hole, one of the world's top dive sites. That was truly a once-in-a-lifetime experience that I'll always remember. It was incredible.

Tom O’Reilly: If there's only someone that can make a recommendation to Academy Sports and Outdoors to open up a shop in Belize…

Joe Cluff: I know right. Wouldn't that be great? Maybe someday…

Tom O’Reilly: Thanks for a great conversation Joe.